Play Better Golf.
Basically there are two types of groove designs used in irons, “V” grooves and “U” grooves. “V” grooves are the oldest groove type and have been the predominant groove used in many irons over the years and a number of companies still use them today. “U” grooves are a more modern groove (the last 20 years or so) that basically will bite into the ball better making them an improvement over the “V” type grooves. This is especially true in playing conditions that cause the ball to slide up the face. Any lubricant (grass, water or whatever) between the clubface and the ball will cause the ball to have a tendency to slide up the face thus reducing backspin as it leaves the face. This is also referred to as the “flyer effect.”
Groove shape impacts how much a ball will slide.
Because wedges have more loft than the other irons, the tendency for the ball to want to slide up the face at impact is greater and this require more friction or bite into the ball to help reduce this tendency. “U” grooves definitely help to reduce this sliding action at impact. The groove type has less importance on spin if the face remains completely dry at impact but even something as small as higher humidity may have some effect. I strongly recommend that every wedge in the golfer’s bag have a “U” type groove design to maximize playability.
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#13
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Ralph,
I recently noticed that my KE4 hybrids (3 through 5) do not have grooves in the center of the face. They do have grooves around the outside.
I am curious, being iron replacements, what the design logic is for this. Even my T.O. 5 wood has grooves all across the face and I see that the T.O. hybrids do too. I do see other hybrids in the catalog with a similar groove pattern to the KE4s.
Cheers, Lee
#12
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I know that this is an older discussion, but I’d like to see Ralph update it with a discussion of his “M” grooves and what benefits they provide.
#11
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Drew, in dry conditions the ball sliding up the face is negligible but it is measurable. In wet conditions the ball slides much more up the face thus creating the flier effect. For three years I played irons with no face grooves and won a number of local amatuer tournaments and maintained a 2 handicap. Obviously, in early morning rounds with dew present, in rain and always from the rough, I had to anticipate and play for the additional flyer effect because of no grooves. I still have a few sets of grooveless irons in my studio. I keep them because on occasion people (some tour pros) want to actually see if they can hit a ball with them. The myth I was de-bunking was the long time feeling that the ball would slide up and sometimes off the face with no grooves, which is false.
#10
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Steve, the pros have the ability to increase their spin or decrease it on their wedge shots. Their ability to hit wedges with way more spin than we can generate is mostly attributed to a much later wrist release and a much steeper angle of attack coming into the ball. Back spin is basically created by the angle difference of the decending clubhead and the clubs loft (dry conditions)). So, the steeper the angle of attack the greater the back spin. Timing the hit properly is also an issue here. Test: Tee up 3 golf balls 10 yards off the green. Hit the first 2 balls in the middle of your stance. Pitch one with a sweeping swing (no wrist break). Pitch the second with a very steep swing (more wrist break). Finally, move the 3rd ball off your left heel and hit up on it. The 3rd ball should roll the farthest, the second ball the least roll and the 1st ball somewhere in between.
#9
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You had written before that there was no difference between irons that had grooves and irons that didn’t (I believe you conducted these tests in the mid 80’s). Now you are saying that the ball slides up the face instead of colliding and rebounding. Can you explain this?
#8
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Bud, there are many great clubs out there. The important thing is to be sure and have them properly fit to you. With that being said, here goes: If you like Callaway and would like to hit one of their easiest to hit irons ever, I would go with the Fusion Wide Sole irons. If you want a hybrid set of irons, I would recommend the new Cleveland Launcher irons because they are the best hybrid irons out there. Being a senior you need to pay particular attention to the shaft. I don’t have enough information about you, but look at graphite shafts in your irons or the new ultra lite steel shafts that True Temper just came out with. Finally, be sure and hit clubs before you buy.
#7
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Backspin: What is that the pros do, that most of us average golfers don’t or can’t, to get the ball to backup so much on the green. I’m just curious as to what they are doing that I can’t. I’m not sure I want to be able to especially if I can’t control the amount. What’s the main diff between the pros and the average golfer in this area. My habdicap is 12
#6
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I have a set of Callaway graphite shaft irons that are about 10 years old which I like very much except they arre quite worn. I am a senior, hit a wedge about 100 yds, what would you reccomend in a new set of irons? Thank you!
#5
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Jeff, most of the industry uses a so-called combination groove which is also a form of a “U” groove. The USGA allows a “U” groove to have almost vertical walls or walls that are quite slanted (but not as slanted as a “V” groove). In other words there is quite a range of groove wall angles to pick from. The combination groove or “M” groove moves away from the almost vertical walls to a given angle that is determined to give the best bite without cutting into the balls paint. The groove radius at the faces surface is also a consideration in this. So, with all that said, the “M” groove and the many other industry “combination grooves” are all actually “U” grooves by USGA definition.
#4
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What is the advantage of an M groove if every company uses a U groove design. Why do Maltby products use M grooves?
